Family Feud: pThagrosh vs eSkarre

Show me "Playing like you've got a pair."

A couple battle reports ago, EV left a cryptic comment: "Next time I'll be bringing out the big guns again, so be warned."  Considering his preferences for casters and lists, I assumed this meant I'd be seeing eGaspy and his infantry swarm the next time we gamed (today[Tuesday]).  There was an outside chance of pDenny as well, or pGaspy, but I felt confident that I'd be facing eGaspy.  I didn't tailor my list to that match-up because I don't do that sort of meta-gaming (and if I do it's after a long stretch of crushing defeats).  Turns out my gaming integrity paid off today as I faced not Gaspy or Denny, but eSkarre.  Even more bizarre, eSkarre with two (2) heavy jacks and no (zero[0]) arc nodes.  After double checking that I was in the right place and facing the right opponent, we got down to business.  My list was the same as last time while EV's (obviously) changed.  He went with:



35+6 points, 31 models

Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast  +6 points
* Deathjack  12 points
* Seether  9 points

10 Bane Thralls  8 points
6 Bile Thralls  5 points
10 Mechanithralls  5 points
* 2 Brute Thralls  2 points

Still a solid core of infantry, but the usual magic support of Withershadow/Skarlock/arc nodes is notably absent.  I've seen what Bane Thralls can do with Black Spot, albeit from a distance while I was playing a game at the FLGS, so I was none too excited about facing them down.  eSkarre looks like quite the toolbox in general, and the Deathjack is no slouch (despite performances to the contrary), so I figure I'm in for a tough battle.  We roll up Mosh Pit for a scenario, further foreshadowing what is bound to be a real slobber-knocker.  Terrain is set up in the usual manner, then I take the unusual approach by deciding to go first when I win the roll that gives me that option.  This has the unfortunate side effect of negating my beloved refused flank deployment scheme, to say nothing of the scenario that demands models in the center of the table, so I dump my models in the middle.  The Swordsmen go on the side without the woods since they don't have Pathfinder and I have no way of giving it to them.  I plan to Slipstream Thagrosh to the front of the ruins in turn one.  Beyond that I have no real plan besides trying to win.  EV counters with his usual setup, though the Seether replaces the usual magical support in the middle.

Setup.

Turn 1

We all know how these go.  I put up Draconic Blessing on the Swordsmen, Fog of War, a smattering of Spiny Growths, and finish up by pulling some Fury with the Forsaken.  EV has the Deathjack cast Death Ward on itself, which I didn't realize it could do, and otherwise advances.

Turn one.

Turn 2

The real action starts with a whimper.  The unpainted Carnivean is well out of charge range, so I move it forward a bit and spray the Banes, barely clipping one.  I boost because why not, I've got the room for the Fury, and kill the one.  Then, Spiny Growth.  I also try to stay far enough back in the woods to nullify any charges from the Banes or the Seether.

Eyeless Sight + Sprays = Far Too Much Fun

On the left, I have decided to fling the painted Carnivean forward to do some murder.  As with all good things, this starts with a Slipstream.  That Slipstream is followed by a Strafe, which dings the Deathjack while also killing a MechThrall and a Brute Thrall.

Love that Seraph.

The subsequent Carnivean charge is less glorious than anticipated.  I do some damage to DJ, but nothing like what I had expected.  Even the Assault-fueled spray does little.  As a final cherry, I have forgotten to put up Spiny Growth and Thagrosh is well out of range to do so himself.  The Swordsmen move to the center to allow Thagrosh room to maneuver, the Forsaken on the right eats some more Fury, and that's about it.

Legion turn two.

EV begins his turn with the good (for him) stuff.  DJ eats the Carnivean without too much effort, which is a bit unsettling.  Granted DJ is a lock to show up on "top 3 jacks in the game" lists, often at the top, but the relative ease with which it dispatches my Carnivean (which admittedly does not have Spiny Growth up), which is not some paper tiger that folds under the first stiff breeze, makes me wonder how the rest of the game will go.  At least DJ doesn't get to heal since my Carnivean has no soul.

Unfortunate, but not unexpected.

The rest of his turn is uneventful.  Stuff moves forward, the Seether gets Admonition, and otherwise the second turn could have been a first turn.

Cryx turn two.

Turn 3

While EV was finishing his turn I was busy hatching a master plan to get revenge on the Deathjack.  It seemed more than a little foolhardy, but I thought it had a good chance to succeed.  Plus it would be entertaining.  It began, as all good things do, with a Slipstream, the Seraph carrying Thagrosh over some walls and into a charge lane.  Because Seraphs are awesome, I also go to shoot after Slipstreaming.  Even better, I got d3+1 shots from said Seraph (which is awesome), and ended up with the max.  A few die rolls later, four Bile Thralls went from undead to redead.

What else to say?  Awesome.

Sweet revenge is a thing to be savored, so I turned my attention to the center of the table.  I wanted to drop a Blight Bomb Shroud amongst the MechThralls to open up some charge lanes so I could send the Swordsmen into the Banes, or perhaps remove that one pesky Bane from in front of the Seether, but I couldn't figure a way to do either.  Instead I charged the Swordsmen into the MechThralls.  They chopped a few Thralls up and prepared to receive the inevitable counter-charge.

They kill stuff good.

Having gained a very little wiggle room for the Forsaken, I set off the Blight Bomb Shroud.  The blast took out three MechThralls and a pair of Banes, notably the one blocking the charge lane to the Seether.  Unfortunately said Seether was just out of range of the Blight Bomb Shroud, so I didn't get the tasty extra die of damage that the unspent Focus it had would have granted me.

Why can't this ability just be called Blight Bomb?

Continuing my campaign of shock and awe, I moved back to the left and the sweet, sweet revenge.  After declaring and making my charge move on the Deathjack with Thagrosh, I realized I wanted to put Draconic Blessing on him to help cut throught DJ's ARM 21.  Unfortunately I had to wait until my charge attack was resolved to do so.  It took almost all my Fury to do it, but in the end DJ was down and out.  To make matters even better, I popped Thagrosh's feat and brought the previously-dead Carnivean back, but I'll cover that in more detail in a bit.

Putting the death in Deathjack.

Back to the right (I do more jump cuts than a kung fu movie).  The Carnivean charged the Seether, Pathfinding like a boss the whole way, only to get roosterblocked by Admonition.  The cowardly Seether shuffled out of range and took my spray with it, turning what would have been a glorious Bane covering spray into a pitiful thing that just barely missed Skarre.  I was inclined to leave the Bane (played in the below shot by the red bear) alive to gum up the charge lane for the Seether, but EV pointed out that he had moved in a straight line with Admonition and was not impeded by the Bane and thus by the laws of logic would be able to charge back in along the same path whether the Bane was there or not.  As such, the Bane died (again) in a quick and chompy manner.  Spiny Growth happened.

Admonition is lame.  Unless/until I get to use it.

About the reappearing Carnivean: there were still two Bile Thralls floating around, and they were spaced in such a manner that I could (perhaps) engage them both with the Carnivean, but it seemed equally likely that by trying to do so I would end up engaging neither one, so I decided to definitely get one and leave the other relatively alone.  The Carni also put up Spiny Growth on itself and Thagrosh, who was camping a Fury in anticipation of the blow that was surely about to fall.  The rear-most Forsaken ate some Fury off the unpainted Carnivean, while being careful to not get too close to the fearful Shepherd, and my turn was done.

Legion turn three.

Cad that he is, EV charged the Seether straight into the unpainted Carnivean.  Since it is nigh-impossible to miss a DEF 11 beast, he got the chain attack off after doing a bit of damage and chucked the Carni into my line of infantry.  The Carni squished a Forsaken and a Swordsman, while also taking some damage, but in the end the throw saved the Carni from further jack-based attacks and was overall, I think, a Good Thing.

Ouch, but could have been worse.

Then the inevitable MechThrall charge.  They munched up a Swordsman and put a large dent in the Carnivean.

McCharge: I'm not lovin' it.

A bit of a head-scratcher followed.  EV moved the Bile Thralls, generating a pair of Free Strikes from the painted Carnivean in the process.  Unsurprisingly, both were slain.  I suppose the Biles wouldn't have stopped either the Carni or Thagrosh from moving through fear of Free Strikes, since they have no melee capability, but despite that EV threw them away for no apparent reason.  I was expecting a pair of Purges across some combination of Thagrosh, Carnivean, and/or Seraph.  Instead I got to eat two nasty, squishy Thralls.  I didn't understand it, but I'll not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Couldn't have happened to nicer models.

Returning to the center, the inevitable Bane charge.  This was much less spectacular than anticipated, due in large part to only a single model getting into melee range and (I imagine) the lack of Black Spot.  The lone Bane took another chunk out of the Carni, leaving it with three boxes and two crippled aspects, but still alive.  The rest of the unit just hung out in the woods, having a picnic or somesuch.

Close, but no cigar.

That was that for EV.  Skarre didn't do much of note other than put Admonition back on the Seether, denying my the glorious rear charge that the painted Carnivean was lined up for.  I had expected a brutal counter-punch here since I had strung my army out a bit in my half of the turn, and while the Carnivean took heavy damage and I lost some infantry, ultimately I didn't lose nearly as much as I had anticipated.  With all my beasts alive (thought just barely in one case) and all the Bile Thralls accounted for, I felt pretty good about my position.

Cryx turn three.

Turn 4

Know what the best way to tell that I'm fully engaged with a game is?  Complete lack of detail shots.  Kicking off my turn was the Shepherd who healed the Carni just enough to restore all its aspects.  Said Carni then shuffled up a bit and sprayed across a handful of Banes and Skarre.  The Banes died, and Skarre may have taken a point or two as well.  Spiny Growth before its activation was over.  The Swordsmen cleaned up the MechThralls.  I tried to bait EV into blowing Admonition by Slipstreaming the other Carnivean up, but he didn't take the bait.  Come to think of it, this probably happened before the spray.  Either way, the Seraph got in about 10 points of damage on Skarre with a nice Strafe.  The painted Carnivean probably sprayed Skarre as well, but again didn't do much notable damage if any at all.  I considered trying to get Thagrosh in amongst the Banes via Mutagenesis, but decided it would have left him far too exposed.  I thought my position was strong enough to wait another turn before trying for the assassination.  To that end, the remaining Forsaken filled up on Fury in anticipation of a Blight Bomb Shroud shot at Skarre, who I figured would be popping her feat in the coming turn.

Legion turn four.

EV maxed out his credit cards trying to kill the painted Carnivean with a Skarre charge, but came up a bit short.  In doing so, he also left Skarre on a single box.  He also popped her feat as anticipated, but that didn't worry me much.  I had been thinking of ways to damage models without targeting them since reading her card before the game started, so I had a couple ideas on how to finish her off.

Not even her Great Rack could seal the deal.

In other news, the Banes killed the Shepherd and a Swordsman.  The Seether also finished off the unpainted Carnivean.

Cryx turn four.

Turn 5

Getting straight to the point, I started with Thagrosh.  I wanted to lob an Obliteration at the Bane between Skarre and the Seether and almost fudged things up real good by not getting close enough to see through the Bane's Stealth, but I caught that in time to move Thagrosh up.  Despite boosting the attack roll. I missed with the spell.  (To be fair, the Bane was in melee and therefore DEF 16, but with Thagrosh being Fury 7 getting a 9 on three dice didn't seem like too much to ask for.)  As a pleasant side-effect of getting close enough to see the Bane, the Obliteration couldn't scatter far enough to miss Skarre.  The Bane died, the Seether and Carnivean didn't.  After a boosted damage roll, Skarre was finished.

Good morning, good afternoon, and good night Skarre.

After a string of less-than-satisfactory games, this one was a nice change of pace.  There was some good back and forth, and neither of us made any bone-headed mistakes that compromised the game.  Initial success aside, the Deathjack was again underwhelming.  Granted I pulled what was probably an unexpected maneuver when I Slipstreamed Thagrosh over to a charge lane, and the lack of a heal from killing the Carnivean didn't help either, but the anecdotal evidence is piling up that DJ isn't as tough a nut to crack as his reputation suggests.  The lack of Black Spot was surprising.  During and immediately after the game I figured that EV had just forgotten about it, but after checking Battle College I see that it's a debuff, not a buff like I had thought.  Given my near-total lack of units it's less surprising since it wouldn't generate extra attacks as well if used on a beast, but a DEF debuff is nice wherever it goes.  Of course if you're having a problem hitting a Carnivean at DEF 11 then you have larger issues, but the total absence of Black Spot is still a bit curious.


I know I've said this before, but I'm really liking how Legion plays.  Perhaps I should revise that to "I'm really enjoying how the Seraph plays."  I'd be happy with a simple Slipstream caddy, so getting the multiple shots with Strafe is a bonus.  It has a decent POW and range, plus the Seraph isn't so Fury hungry that I have to make a hard choice between boosting Strafe shots and doing other things.  The Carniveans make great payloads, but I think I could swap them out for Scytheans (one of them at least, want to have Spiny Growth around) without really losing much.  Of course I could also upgrade one to Typhon, but that will have to wait a little while.


Most of all, I like getting to play with a lot of heavies.  That sort of style just isn't viable in Warmachine, outside of a few jack-friendly casters, which is a real shame since it's the jacks/beasts that give the system its particular flavor.  Infantry is nice and all, but it should be support for the big boys, not the other way around.  The game is called Warmachine after all, not Warinfantry.  An unexpected bonus of being able to run beast-heavy is that I'm running less infantry, which means the Bile Thralls are less of a concern.  Since the Swordsmen (or Archers, depending on the list) are there as support and not as the heavy lifters, I can both run them at the back of my force and not be too worried if I lose them.  The beasts won't care much about a Purge, and it's an annoyance at best on a caster.  Without worrying about a Purge or two caving in the center of my army, Cryx infantry is less intimidating as a whole.  This is a very pleasant discovery indeed.  Will it cause a shift in our "meta?"  Perhaps, though I imagine it will be less of a move towards jacks/beasts than a move away from Bile Thralls.


I'm two for two on posting a battle report on the same day as the game now.  Might be a good idea to check Hell and see if it looks icy.

Order of Activation is Important: pThagrosh vs pHaley

Not a bad song, even if you don't go in for light pop (I usually don't).

Having used it for all of three games (one of which hardly counts), I've been very happy with how my pLylyth list has worked.  The logical move for today's game (see usual caveat re: when this gets posted), then, is to change things up.  As such my lovely blind archer lady stepped aside for the big...thing that is pThagrosh.  My first choice to switch things up would have been the first lady of freeky deeky, Absylonia, and the tier 4 list I have concocted for her.  One small problem though: she's still in a blister (which is still inside a box).  It's been a little slow on the construction front around here.  With that avenue blocked off, I went in for the above-mentioned pThagrosh (the p stands for pimp, though that newcomer Kallus is messing up the sausage to bun ratio).  I figured I'd go ahead and bring out the Swordsmen while I was at it since they hadn't seen any table time either, and ended up with the following list:



35+5 points, 13 models

Thagrosh, Prophet of Everblight  +5 points
* 2x Carnivean  11 points each
* Seraph  8 points

6 Blighted Swordsmen  5 points
Shepherd  1 point
2x The Forsaken  2 points each

If it looks similar to the pLylyth list, it's because I don't have much in the way of beasts to choose from just yet.  The basic idea is the same: have the beasts punch things in the face while the infantry runs around and tries to not get underfoot.  I was forced into the horror that is proxying because I had an extraneous point to fill and no single-point models to fill it with, so I used a stunt Shepherd.  The Seraph was also proxied due to my not remembering to bring it along.  It won't fit in my bag, so I carry it around by hand in lieu of a better solution.  This will change when inspiration finally strikes, but I digress.

Random old timey boxers because why not?

EV threw me a curve ball today in the form of pHaley.  I played against her for the first time last week at the FLGS, so I had an inkling of what to look out for this time (I was completely blindsided by both her feat and Temporal Barrier previously).  Further curve: there were three jacks in the list.  While this is not unusual by strict numbers (EV's standard Cryx list includes the Cankerworm and three arc nodes), it is highly unusual in that the jacks would have to do the heavy lifting.  Our very local meta (read: games played at EV's place) are full-on Infantrymachine, so this was a doubly unexpected move.  I'm sure you're all ruining your keyboards/handheld devices salivating over this mysterious list, so in the interest of limiting the destruction as much as possible, the list:

35+5 points, 20 models

Captain Victoria Haley  +5 points
* Centurion  9 points
* Lancer  6 points
* Squire  2 points

Journeyman Warcaster  3 points
* Hunter  6 points

10 Long Gunners  10 points
* Long Gunner Officer & Standard  2 points
2x Stormsmith Stormcaller  1 point each

Only one unit, a new record.  The Long Gunners are unfortunate, both because of the damage they can pump out and because I get a headache trying to keep track of who has fired.  (Who thought RoF 2 and CRA was a good idea?  Sack them immediately, if not sooner.)  Haley herself is a piece of work, and Junior is no slouch either, but overall I didn't feel like I was climbing uphill immediately like I do against the usual Cryx infantry spam list.  Plus I might get to make use of all those Terror/Abomination models I have, to say nothing of all the "against living models" effects.

We rolled No Man's Land (8" strip down the middle, keep something inside it) scenario.  For a change we had no forests on the table, though I did plop a swamp/pond in the center to keep the tradition alive.  EV won the roll to go first and did, deploying mostly in the center.  Can you guess what my deployment was like?  Hint: it stars with "R" and ends with "efused flank."  I went heavy on the right to try and keep some cover between my troops and the Long Gunners for as long as possible.  My plan was pretty simple: get to the middle and smash things.  EV got to moving while I was still fishing out counters, so no setup picture.  Use your imagination.

Turn 1

EV ran most of his stuff forward and dropped a couple Arcane Shields around.  Did you know that a Centurion with Arcane Shield is ARM 24?  I responded by walking most of my troops forward, putting Draconic Blessing (+2 STR and Terror) on the Swordsmen, casting Fog of War, and finishing things off with a few Spiny Growths.

A note on models: the Shredder is the stunt Shepherd, while the Devastator plays the Seraph.  I picked the Devastator not for the hilarity of a big, slow jack subbing in for a light, fast beast, but because it was a compact model that didn't hang over its base too much.

Turn one.

Turn 2

The Hunter did the only noteworthy thing in EV's turn, hitting the painted Carnivean for a decent bit of damage.

Shoot it before it eats us all!

That was about it.  You can see what I assume was EV's plan shaping up: send the jacks up the middle (the redefined middle created by my eschewing the left side of the board that is) while the shooty bits hang back and shoot.  Of note, Temporal Barrier was cast.

Cygnar turn two.

Normally I'd be reluctant to slingshot my pieces forward for fear of over-extending them.  Today I was seized by a certain devil-may-case attitude.  Was it because pThaggy's feat brings a dead warbeast back to life, allowing me to catapult a Carnivean into EV's lines to eat stuff, die, and return to eat more stuff?  Was it because I drank most of my morning coffee as we were setting up?  Was it a precursor of a more aggressive, go-for-the-throat approach?  Who can say.  Whatever the reason, I decided to Slipstream a Carnivean up the field to let it munch on things.  First step: use the Seraph.  Four Strafe shots later, the Lancer had taken some decent damage.  Oh, and there was a Carnivean waiting to start eating.

Let's all pretend the Carnivean is about 6" back and that the Lancer is still on the table.

Next, the big guy stepped up.  Due to Temporal Barrier I couldn't charge it in, which meant no spray (Charges only), which meant my saucy route to the side of the ruins, engineered for maximum spray coverage, was for naught.  Still, it got the job done with aplomb.  Note that the Carni is perched atop the wall.  Obviously the model wouldn't stay there, so it got backed up a bit to actually stay on the table instead of toppling over and breaking into a thousand pieces.

Om nom nom nom.

In the center, things got real interesting.  Because I couldn't charge (love that Temporal Barrier), I decided to employ some of those Power Attacks I never use because I'm too busy charging.  Thagrosh started the fun by Slipstreaming the painted Carni up the field some and failing to spray the Stormsmith.  I kept a Fury on him to Transfer with since he was more exposed than I would have liked, then I got into the meat of it with the Carnivean.  As with the other Carni, the model wouldn't fit where it was on the table (it's really on the other side of the wall).  I picked such an odd spot to be sure that I could throw the Centurion and still attack the Hunter.  The two-handed throw and I are old friends thanks to the Kodiak, and this time I got a pleasant surprise: things worked out better than expected.  The grab went fine, I won the STR check easily, launched the Centurion at Haley (24 ARM doesn't help if you're getting chucked around), missed Haley, and deviated into the edge of the Long Gunners.  At first I thought I clipped Haley and three Gunners, but closer inspection (and EV telling me I was wrong) showed that I got only two Gunners, but also tagged Junior.  The Long Gunners were squashed with no need for dice, Haley took a point, and Junior ate enough damage to die as well.

All was not rosy though.  The Hunter that I had so carefully positioned my Carni to be in range of?  Inert when Junior died.

Carniveans: taking out the trash since around noon today.

The Swordsmen ran up to screen Thagrosh against charges and tie up the Stormsmith.  The turn had also started with the Shepherd healing the painted Carnivean.  Finally I ran the Forsaken around eating some Fury, though I'd still have one left floating after Leeching in the turn to come.  Riverboat gambling all the way.

Legion turn two.

Turn 3

To his credit, EV did not fold up the tent.  With one jack destroyed, another inert, and a third laying on top of his caster, it would have been easy to do so.  He seemed to have a plan though, moving Haley around behind the building (while casting Temporal Barrier of course), then sending in the Centurion.  After a bunch of uninspired rolls, I think Spiny Growth did more damage than the jack did.  Then, realization.  Slightly afterward, disaster.

Judging by his reaction, EV had intended to light up the Carnivean with a couple CRAs from the Long Gunners.  There were a couple problems with this.  First, the Carni was behind cover (DEF 11 becomes DEF 15).  Next, the Carni was in melee (DEF 15 becomes DEF 19, plus chance of hitting your own stuff).  Finally, you can't CRA into a melee.  This is when the tent folding occurred, though the Stormsmiths did try to fry the Carni before the turn ended.  I also moved the Carnivean up closer to its actual spot since the Centurion wasn't hogging all the ground anymore.

Cygnar turn three.

If Blood Bowl taught me anything (debatable, considering how bad I was at that game), it's that you should start with the sure things first before moving on to the riskier propositions.  As such, the Swordsmen walked calmly (no Charging thanks to Temporal Barrier) and started chopping up the Stormsmith.  The first one missed, the second connected, one less lightning dude.

MAT 7, P+S 13 Weapon Masters are scary.

While pondering my next move (maybe chuck the Centurion again), I realized that all EV had in the center strip was an inert warjack and part of a unit.  Without really meaning to, I had won.

Fin.

This one wasn't entirely satisfying since the game hinged on EV getting in his own way and then (I assume) moving stuff out of the zone without thinking about scenario conditions.  That said, I think I had him over a barrel.  He was down to one jack (staring down a pissed-off Carnivean) and his caster had a beast waiting for a snack on either side of her.  The Long Gunners were almost at full strength, yes, and were perfectly capable of finishing off the (slightly) damaged Carnivean (or at least putting a big dent into it), but I also had Thagrosh's feat waiting to bring it back.  EV had lost two jacks, Junior, and some Gunners, while I had taken some damage on one of the Carniveans and nothing else.  Thus while I won in a less-than-satisfying manner I don't think it would have been too hard to have sealed the deal in the usual way.  The worst part of it all was that the game had gone just long enough to preclude another.

In the end I did learn a little from this game.  Top of the list: Slipstreaming with your caster is great fun.  I was considering a second Seraph to fling things around, but since my caster can do that I can get by with one.  For now.  (Seraphs are great).  I also learned that Thagrosh is a bad man...ogrun...thing.  Fury 7, nice stats, a spray, one free animus, recycle-a-beast, decent spells, what more can you ask for?  The medium base does mean he's a bit exposed, but he has a big enough control area to hang back a bit, and with Mutagenesis he can close the gap quickly.  At least on paper he can.

Report done the same day I played the game?  Madness.